Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit bilweeler's column >>

BILWEELER

Liberal and Proud...
Articles Posted: 62  Links Seeded: 136
Member Since: 7/2010  Last Seen: 5/18/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Did the GOP Overreach on Birth Control?

Seeded on Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:05 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Digby's Blog
politics, health-care, gop, women, 2012, birth-control
Seeded by bilweeler
Advertise | AdChoices

Democrats can high-five one another about Republican overreach and laugh hysterically at the increased number of votes Barack Obama will receive in 2012 over Mitt Santorum. But ultimately the joke's on us. It's been on us ever since the Obama Administration decided to concede an inch to the misogynist conspiracy of extremist fanatics that are the Bishops, rather than mock them immediately for being out of touch with their own flock, to say nothing of the mainstream American public.

The political ground on contraception has suddenly shifted to the right faster than I have seen on any social issue in my lifetime. It's incredible.

 

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • bilweeler's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: American Progressives, Obamaholics Anonymous, Theocratic Life
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (133)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
bilweeler

I think they did overreach, but read the article. I could definitely be wrong here.

  • 14 votes
#1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:06 AM EST
WaltUU

I think overreaching almost implies that where they reached toward was a valid place to reach toward, but that reaching for that place was beyond their ability to successfully defend, when the reality is that that place they were reaching toward (in a word: misogyny) was simply an invalid place to reach for, just like all manner of other barbaric places that humanity has left behind.

But ultimately the joke's on us. It's been on us ever since the Obama Administration decided to concede an inch to the misogynist conspiracy of extremist fanatics that are the Bishops, rather than mock them immediately for being out of touch with their own flock, to say nothing of the mainstream American public.

The political ground on contraception has suddenly shifted to the right faster than I have seen on any social issue in my lifetime. It's incredible.

I think this is way off-target. The concession Obama made was reasonable, and exuded mature leadership. It provided a ready-touchstone to use throughout the campaign to remind voters that Democrats elected respect the views of those who disagree with them, while Republicans elected disrespect the views of anyone who disagrees with them. And the political ground has not shifted to the right on the matter of contraception: Rather, it is only solidified where it already was, thereby reminding everyone who cares about access to contraception in society yet another reason to support Obama rather than the Republican candidate whoever it may end up being. By contrast, the folks who were opposed to contraception, and have consequently had their position hardened by this, were almost surely not going to vote for a liberal Democrat no matter what.

  • 32 votes
#1.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:20 AM EST
Fla Pat

Did the GOP Overreach on Birth Control?

This is rhetorical correct - they overreach for everything!

  • 28 votes
#1.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:14 PM EST
mountainmike-1199289

Over reach? By a huge margin. Republican use of women's health, birth control and abortion as yet another wedge issue is disgusting.

The bottom line is think of Rick Santorum if he were elected president. It would be like a fundy Dan Quyale glassy eyed and over his head with his job description.

Rick came out with an anti Protestant speech. It is starting to feel like he is a Democratic Party plant in the Republican race. He has alienated moderates, women, is now moving on to alienating Protestants, and who is next? Painting yourself into a corner to the extreme, down to one square inch. Putting your foot in your mouth, following it down your throat and imploding into fairie dust.

  • 33 votes
#1.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:40 PM EST
Buckeye Voter

Why are Republicans against contraception? Why don't they want to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies? What do they have against women?

  • 32 votes
#1.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST
xrayspex

If there's been any over reaching on social issues at the national level the past few weeks, it's been by the Democrats, but it is, sadly, a reliable vote getter. My reliably Democrat Catholic lady friend is still pissed about the whole forcing of contraceptive coverage issue and was not impressed by the President's "compromise". She also finally agrees with me on health care "reform" (that what the Democrats passed was a f**king joke that will do NOTHING to lower individual costs and NOTHING to improve the quality of care received ). She also agrees on my point that BOTH parties are pretty much worthless in their current forms, wishing to pick fights with each other instead of doing We the People's business.

Sadly, it is valid to point out the Republican party's overreaching on "social conservative" issues on the state level. Our state legislature has Republican control for the first time in more than a century and rather than do something about the insane amount of red tape involved in bringing business here or our oppressive taxes, decided we need to worry about who marries who !! Result?? South Carolina gets a shiny new retirement community and Georgia gets a shiny new Caterpillar complex and we get to keep the highest gas taxes in the nation (and that was just this week!) !! FAIL.

If the Republicans want to insure a second term for President Obama, all they need to do is nominate their "social conservative" little buddy, Rick Santorum. Worse yet, continuing to follow this failed path may result in Democrats retaking the House and a return (hopefully not for long) of the "leadership" of Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker!! It is truly sad that after all of the incompetence shown by Democrat "leadership" the past five years, that the Republicans have decided to shoot themselves in the foot by following the "social conservative" path to a ballot box beat down !!!

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:46 PM EST
Colodomom

Did the GOP Overreach on Birth Control?

YES.

  • 24 votes
#1.6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:49 PM EST
MJL-3

Did the GOP Overreach on Birth Control?

Yep, as they do everything else

  • 21 votes
#1.7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:53 PM EST
madvargr

By contrast, the folks who were opposed to contraception, and have consequently had their position hardened by this, were almost surely not going to vote for a liberal Democrat no matter what.

Agreed, except Obama is no liberal. It all comes back to IOKIYAR. Bush could issue EEOC rules mandating insurance cover contraception - not a peep. Mike Huckabee can sign it into law - not a peep. Mitt Romney can sign it into law - not a peep. Obama does it, it is the end of the world. Pick one - it is because Obama is black and the GOP hate his guts for it, or the Republicans are lying scum who can't even stand by their own convictions.

  • 36 votes
#1.8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:54 PM EST
Arlene Tognetti

Its funny how the GOP doesn't want Government in our personal life

YET, they of course, want WOMEN TO DO AS THEY ARE TOLD BY THE GOP

Get a life, GOP, your political days are numbered

And YES they over-reach, what do you expect out of fanatics?

Obama/Biden 2012 Landslide

  • 19 votes
#1.9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:27 PM EST
Colodomom

Bilweeler--

My comment #1.6 here was much shorter than I wanted it to be.

But, I was in the middle of writing about this very subject (along with the rest of the GOP anti-women nonsense) on my own page...from the point of view of a WAY too seasoned old military wife.

It's up there if you're interested.

  • 9 votes
#1.10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:29 PM EST
ryoushi12

No, this was an attempt at subversion of separation of church and state, BY THE CHURCH, of breathtaking proportions.

The lying two faced pedophilia supporting bishops KNOW that they have ALREADY either caved OR lost in court on DOZENS of such applications of the law to BUSINESSES operated by the church. This was grandstanding, and they are NOW being seen for what they REALLY are, a bunch a women hating bastards who want to impose CATHOLIC DOGMA as the law of the land.

  • 8 votes
#1.11 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:09 PM EST
Tink-2285193

They no only overreached, they went totally off the cliff, as they have done with all their attacks against women and their personal choices about what they can and can't do with their own bodies. They attack Obama and accuse him or overreach on his stand on contraceptives being available to all women through their insurance company, but, they are even worse, by forcing their own religious views on all women in America, even to the point of making women criminals for having an abortion, making and their doctors even to the death penalty! The GOPTeaBags are the ones who are the religious fanatics forcing their own personal ideology and religious beliefs on every women in America, then claim that Obama is terrible for wanting to make sure every woman in America can have contraceptives.

The GOPTeaBags are the real criminals, and every woman in America knows this, except their own demented female base and supporters won't admit it either.

These despicable, monsterous dictators must go!!

  • 13 votes
#1.12 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:25 PM EST
SAtownMytown

Did the GOP Overreach on Birth Control?

^^^ Overreach?! They freakin catapulted themselves to that accusation!!!

The fact that this is an insurance/mediciniple subject and NOT a consciencous reiligious one, is down right stupid!!!!! :)

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:22 PM EST
bonos_rama

Yes. Even most Catholic women aren't aligning with the churches. How could they? 98% violate Catholic doctrine and use birth control! And let's face it - their husbands want birth control, too. They don't want to be paying for 10 mouths to feed.

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:04 PM EST
Fla Pat

Maybe we have been a little hard on the GOP. They have continued to allow aspirin to be sold after all.

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:12 PM EST
Tink-2285193

"They have continued to allow aspirin to be sold after all"

Yeah....so that all the young girls can have one to hold between their knees. /s

  • 2 votes
#1.16 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:39 PM EST
Studiusbagus

Did they overreach? No, that was intended.

The Republicans walked right in to a trap of their own making. They got a ton of help from Obama who looked as though he "stepped in it" by letting it be addressed to Church owned enterprises, the sharks came in from everywhere. When Obama took the church out of the equation, all that was left were Republicans....burned in to the mind of every woman voter.

They are going to "overreach" again very soon. Watch what Obama hands them on the budget. The cuts will be coming from the backbone of the Republican cash cows, and will be tied to consumer "Near and dear" issues. Infrastructure, education, employment, tax credits for companies that keep jobs in the USA....If the Republicans blink, they will either lose the cash or lose the people.

Brilliant!

  • 4 votes
#1.17 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:58 PM EST
WaltUU

Why are Republicans against contraception? Why don't they want to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies? What do they have against women?

Right-wing reactionaries believe that society would be better off with women relegated to the roles they served before WWII, i.e., mostly restricted to be mothers, and domestic and sexual servants to their husbands. From their perspective, it puts women back in their place, makes it easier to men to obtain and hold the most rewarding jobs in society, and overall reduces the supply of labor, therefore bolstering sagging salaries for men.

If there's been any over reaching on social issues at the national level the past few weeks, it's been by the Democrats, but it is, sadly, a reliable vote getter.

Your statement here is self-contradictory: Taking a stance that shows the negative attributes of the Republicans and showcases the positive attributes of the Democrats is the opposite of "overreaching".

My reliably Democrat Catholic lady friend is still pissed about the whole forcing of contraceptive coverage issue and was not impressed by the President's "compromise". (blah blah blah)

I don't know your professed "reliably Democrat Catholic lady friend" so there is no way to tell whether how you're describing her is accurate or not. It is as likely as not that you're just making the whole thing up. That's the danger with presenting anecdotes as if they were evidence supporting a point you're trying to make: Your whole contention collapses with just one pinprick, the fact that you cannot prove that you didn't make the whole thing up.

The polls, while they have their own problems, are far more reliable indicators of what kind of people are reacting which way to which things. And from the polls, what we can know, though, is that the folks who were opposed to the President's inclusion of contraception were folks who were ill-inclined toward voting for the President anyway, and that the whole thing, while giving the President a very potent tool to use against the Republicans in the fall, hasn't harmed his support overall.

Sadly, it is valid to point out the Republican party's overreaching on "social conservative" issues on the state level. Our state legislature has Republican control for the first time in more than a century and rather than do something about the insane amount of red tape involved in bringing business here or our oppressive taxes, decided we need to worry about who marries who !!

Republicans know that they have no leg to stand on with regard to economic issues anymore. Previous Republican administrations have harmed the middle class, while previous Democratic administrations have hosted recovery. Their claims that the Democrats seem to always be there to bask in the glory of prosperity that in some convoluted way they claim stemmed from things that they should get credit for ring so hollow that it is painfully embarrassing to sit back and watch when Republicans are stupid enough to try to deceive political moderates into believing such clap-trap.

So all the Republicans really have left is trying to distract attention away from their failings with regard to economic issues, by trying to activate barbaric instincts in their people, such as bigotry and misogyny, and try to parlay that into votes, along with continuing their efforts to sabotage the United States so that they can use the products of their sabotage to try to wrest some votes from the President.

If the Republicans want to insure a second term for President Obama, all they need to do is nominate their "social conservative" little buddy, Rick Santorum.

True, but Gingrich is just as damaged, and Ron Paul is almost comical. The idea that Romney won't be the nominee is laughable, but heck who am I to keep the Republicans from destroying their chances?

No, this was an attempt at subversion of separation of church and state, BY THE CHURCH, of breathtaking proportions.

I wonder how much of this is the church trying to effectively gain control over the government, versus church-goers simply trying to corrupt their association to their church in an attempt to gain power for themselves, abusing the name of their God in the process.

  • 5 votes
#1.18 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:12 AM EST
Reply
Shelby Davenport

I kind of disagree with the premise. If President Obama would have doubled down on the Bishops about all this birth control blather this would be even louder than what it is right now. The right are looking for a reason - ANY REASON - to vilify the President on any and all issues. They have tied this thin thread between religion and women's health issues. And if anything is true, Obama cannot take on religion - that is between the church and its flock. It's up to the flock to tell the church that they must step from the 12th Century into the 21st.

This is one of the things that I am so crazy about, and one of the reasons why I left the Republican party back in the 80's - the right was attempting to "infiltrate" religion with politics. And it hasn't stopped. Bush made it worse by catering to a voting block to help get him elected (thanks Karl) and then dropped them like a hot potato, as stated by Bush's own Faith Based representative in his administration. So, they got a taste and want more. And look where it has us.

President Obama is right to step back and let the rabid right, rabid religious right, join hands and walk off the cliff as women will never stand for this. Fox News will be providing the red carpet to the edge!

  • 22 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:23 AM EST
petridishofideas

I'll gladly stand to block any of those morons from diverting from the edge. With a electric cow herd if I must! Gotta get my fun torturing those who want to torture the resat of us!

  • 8 votes
#2.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:08 PM EST
Reply
Stop the ignorance.

They definitely overreached and will soon be trying to walk back the rhetoric.

It's incredible to believe that in the post 2000 era Republicans are alienating perhaps the most influential modern voting block in history.

Think about it, first it was Hispanics and now women!

Kind of brings to mind a funeral scene where the eulogy isn't finished but the woman and the Hispanic in the crowd ringing the grave already have a fist full of dirt ready to throw down on the casket.

  • 24 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST
Bill K. NYExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

It was obvious to all but the dims that Obama's dictatorial pronouncement was an overreach as well as un-Constitutional.

    Reply#4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:40 AM EST
    RobPlumley

    I don't think so. The Catholic Church is an outdated and corrupt institution.

    As in all religious entities that do business on the private sector, they must conform to the rules of the private sector. The requirement proposed to all was not an infringement to any faith or religion, it is just a requirement if you do business outside your church, you must abide by the same rules.

    So our President decided fine. Your contracted insurance companies will then provide the benefit.

    The Republicans come across again as arrogant and out of touch with norms of today.

    • 23 votes
    #4.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:56 AM EST
    Shelby Davenport

    As in all religious entities that do business on the private sector, they must conform to the rules of the private sector. The requirement proposed to all was not an infringement to any faith or religion, it is just a requirement if you do business outside your church, you must abide by the same rules.

    Not to mention decided law on this in many states.

    • 22 votes
    #4.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST
    Topcat Roosevelt

    Then why are all the polls on the Presidents side on this, Bill? Why do even 42% republicans agree with the President on this Bill? It would actually be unconstitutional to allow the Catholic charities non church entities to flout federal employment law that was dutifully enforced under Bush and Ashcroft without incident...btw...Now we see the GOOPers for what they are Paternalistic Misogynists without a concern for what the majority of citizens in this country women are concerned with...methinks you will regret that error come November especially with if your candidate is Taintsorum

    • 24 votes
    #4.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:05 PM EST
    Steve Watts

    Don't forget that the Catholic Church itself already does this at many of its hospitals, universities, and charities -- and has been for years.

    • 19 votes
    #4.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST
    Don Overton

    Bill K. NY

    It was obvious to all but the dims that Obama's dictatorial pronouncement was an overreach as well as un-Constitutional.

    Exactly why the right has lost all creditability to comment on anything Constitutional. Besides the name calling your comment is the standard right wing lie. Read the damm bill and quit depending on Hannity and Fox News and especially those tea party failures in Congress.

    • 23 votes
    #4.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:12 PM EST
    Reply
    Stevie-445471

    Obama standing up to the Bishops: It is not only the Catholic Bishops that raised this issue. Many evangelicals such as Richard Land Southern Baptist Convention, Page Patterson Southern Baptist Convention, James Dobson Focus on the Family and of course Mike Huckabee, Faux News. These men are also pushing for the Person Hood Amendment. And not one of them have the courage to appear on Hardball, Politics Nation, The Ed Show, Rachel Maddow or the Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell.

    • 18 votes
    Reply#5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:21 PM EST
    Steve Watts

    Can't it be both?

    First, let's clarify what we mean by "overreach." If we mean step outside usual boundaries on an issue, of course the Republicans overreached. If we mean, however, to do that in such a way that it politically hurts them, they didn't -- at least not at first. They saw an exploitable issue during an election year and hung on it like rabid dogs.

    It was transparently political, but what do you expect when the economy is recovering despite their best efforts? They're starting to see that the economy as a central issue won't win them the election. That's why you don't hear them talking about it lately; they're shifting towards social issues because it's all they have left. It was smart politics, even if it was wrong.

    Obama caved, which I think was an enormous mistake for a lot of reasons. But he was also making a smart (incorrect) political move. He came out looking like he was the reasonable guy in the room, making a compromise that sounds fair to the vast majority of Americans and Catholics alike. This helps him side-step the issue while looking bi-partisan and able to work with the opposition.

    From here, the GOP had a choice. They could drop the issue, or they could press it. They're choosing to press it, which is why I think now they've overreached. They're publicly forcing themselves into a position on contraception and women's rights that stands against the vast majority even within their own party. They were outmaneuvered politically, and they're doubling down. This might fire up the religious right base, but that's not who you need in the general election. If this gambit results in a Santorum nomination, their presidential hopes are sunk.

    Not that I'd mind, of course. Go Santorum!

    • 8 votes
    Reply#6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:29 PM EST
    Buckeye Voter

    They weren't outmaneuvered as much as they chose to out maneuver themselves. Now, the Republican Party is officially against the Pill.

    • 16 votes
    #6.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:57 PM EST
    madvargr

    Yep - they've painted themselves into a corner. Not only can they not be for the pill, they also can't deny a religious organization that doesn't want to pay the minimum wage or follow any other government regulation.

    How ironic from the party that was leading the fight to outlaw Sharia...

    • 14 votes
    #6.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:59 PM EST
    Severed Head in a Jar

    How ironic from the party that was leading the fight to outlaw Sharia...

    They weren't fight to outlaw Sharia per se; they wanted to outlaw Islamic Sharia. They're fine with Christian Sharia.

    • 7 votes
    #6.3 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:46 AM EST
    Reply
    jwc2blue

    Atkins states;

    "The political ground on contraception has suddenly shifted to the right faster than I have seen on any social issue in my lifetime. It's incredible."

    Over 80% of Catholic women have use contraception. This is not likely to change. The fallacy here is the Republican charge that this is a "religious freedom" issue.

    It is what it's been all along, an attack on women's right to control their own reproductive systems.

    The Repubs. are so blind to where the majority of Americans stand on most social issues that they think that they have the people behind them on this.

    Guess they'll find out the hard way.

    • 18 votes
    Reply#7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:47 PM EST
    Bill K. NY

    So now the supreme dictator can dictate what religion must do to conform to the state. You can not practice your religion if the state deems it unacceptable.

    It is not about what a number of people do or don't do, it's about faith and religion. Obama and the libs are obfuscating their assault on Christian religion. The choice of religion based organizations do not limit the availability of the services only who is responsible for paying for the services. The religion based organizations do NOT want to pay for the services either directly or indirectly as a matter of religion.

      #8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:54 PM EST
      bilweeler

      Bill:

      So now the supreme dictator can dictate what religion must do to conform to the state. You can not practice your religion if the state deems it unacceptable.

      You have taken...and swallowed...the Fox News bait. Prepare to be challenged and educated.

      • 25 votes
      #8.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:56 PM EST
      Bill K. NY

      What bait? I haven't been following this on FOX. However I have read the coverage in the news papers (yes, some still exist), and viewed the reports on CBS and ABC.

        #8.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:00 PM EST
        T. Gracchus

        What is your position on Muslims managing the details of, say, prenuptial agreements (when two Muslims are marrying) according to their religious convictions?

        Surely you wouldn't expect the state to intervene and demand conformation to societal norms?

        • 12 votes
        #8.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 PM EST
        Buckeye Voter

        The religion based organizations do NOT want to pay for the services either directly or indirectly as a matter of religion.

        They are not being asked to.

        If this is what you base your objections on, then your argument lacks a basis.

        It is not about what a number of people do or don't do, it's about faith and religion.

        What bearing do you believe your faith and religion should have on another's health care insurance? For whom, other than yourself, would you speak? Interesting that you should use the term "supreme dictator" given your stance.

        • 22 votes
        #8.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 PM EST
        Bill K. NY

        Are health insurers mandated to pay for prenuptual agreements?

        • 1 vote
        #8.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:05 PM EST
        JACK DEATH

        So now the supreme dictator can dictate what religion must do to conform to the state. You can not practice your religion if the state deems it unacceptable.

        This is just more BS.

        Here in MO land a Catholic priest did not follow to the letter the way the mass was said and was fired by the Vatican. This is the First amendment at work. This is a church.

        Catholic hospital and universities are in the secular world and fall into US labor law there is NO first amendment except for free speech. The Gov cannot control that.

        But there is NO free speech for those who work for these institutions. If the corp bosses do not like what you say you can be fired. This is because these are privately owned.

        • 17 votes
        #8.6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST
        Bill K. NY

        What bearing do you believe your faith and religion should have on another's health care insurance?

        Religion should not have a bearing on health insurance. Religion based organizations do have a choice on what they provide and finance. It is unconstitutional to mandate religion based organizations finance services that violate the precepts of the religion.

        • 1 vote
        #8.7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:13 PM EST
        Don Overton

        I haven't been following this on FOX.

        Except the same language is used on Fox.

        Your comments are much the same as saying Obama is the cause of gas prices. Oh wait, you've already done that.

        • 18 votes
        #8.8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:13 PM EST
        JACK DEATH

        It is unconstitutional to mandate religion based organizations finance services that violate the precepts of the religion.

        Wrong!!! Not in the secular world of employment.

        • 19 votes
        #8.9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:15 PM EST
        Steve Watts

        So now the supreme dictator can dictate what religion must do to conform to the state. You can not practice your religion if the state deems it unacceptable.

        Religions can do whatever the hell they want. If you're a business, however, you have to play by the same rules as all other businesses. It doesn't matter if your owner of a business is Joe Schmo or the Catholic Church or Jesus Christ Himself. Business is business, it has to abide by US law.

        The notion that giving special financial advantages to some businesses on the basis of the owner's religion is somehow constitutional is laughable. I'd bet the right-wing wouldn't fight even half as hard if the issue were whether we should grant business advantage to a Muslim owner, or a Hindu owner, or literally anything other than a sect of Christianity.

        • 19 votes
        #8.10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:16 PM EST
        Bill K. NY

        Here in MO land a Catholic priest did not follow to the letter the way the mass was said and was fired by the Vatican.

        One of the vows a Catholic Priest takes is obedience.

        No organization is legally mandated to provide health insurance. Even under Obamacare organizations can just pay the fine. What gives Obama and the dims the authority to mandate religion based organizations violate their precepts?

          #8.11 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:23 PM EST
          petridishofideas

          IF religionj wants to play politics.....tax them. Property, income, workers the whole shabang!

          • 12 votes
          #8.12 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:29 PM EST
          Bill K. NY

          The notion that giving special financial advantages to some businesses on the basis of the owner's religion is somehow constitutional is laughable.

          What does that have to do with mandating a religion based organization provide specific services?

          • 1 vote
          #8.13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 PM EST
          JACK DEATH

          What gives Obama and the dims the authority to mandate religion based organizations violate their precepts?

          What does that have to do with mandating a religion based organization provide specific services?

          Religion based enterprises who hire from the secular world are NO longer just faith based and are under US labor law end of story.

          • 18 votes
          #8.14 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST
          Bill K. NY

          LOL... liberals love to tax others. All the liberal not for profit organizations and societies should be taxed first. The OWS protesters should have been tried and fined. Any liberal based organization is playing politics and should be taxed.

            #8.15 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST
            Steve Watts

            What does that have to do with mandating a [business] provide specific services?

            Fixed that for you.

            We're not talking about "religion-based organizations" here, Bill. We're talking about businesses. The mandate always included an exemption for religious-based organizations, with very clear criteria. If you primarily exist to propagate or teach about your religion, and if you primarily hire members of that religion, then you count as a religious-based organization and you're exempt from the mandated requirement.

            Catholic churches fit those requirements, so they aren't mandated to do anything. Catholic hospitals, schools, and charities don't fit those requirements, so they were mandated to follow the same laws as everyone else. The distinction couldn't be clearer.

            So as I said: giving a business financial advantages based on the religion of its owner is unconstitutional. Would you be this passionate if a Buddhist were claiming his business should be exempt from federal taxes because he'd be paying for war?

            • 14 votes
            #8.16 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:52 PM EST
            T. Gracchus

            What is your position on Muslims managing the details of, say, prenuptial agreements (when two Muslims are marrying) according to their religious convictions?

            Are health insurers mandated to pay for prenuptual agreements?

            I'm not sure I follow this.

            Are you saying that the state should not be able to interfere with the religious convictions of businesses, but it is okay if they interfere with the religious convictions of a couple getting married?

            • 7 votes
            #8.17 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:08 PM EST
            bilweeler

            Bill K.

            Any liberal based organization is playing politics and should be taxed.

            You could at least cite a single "liberal based organization" that is not currently taxed, but should be. At least in your opinion.

            But no. Just throw it out there. If you can't name a single organization that is liberal, not taxed, and somehow not in compliance with IRS regulations, well, here's a new term for you. RED HERRING.

            Look it up.

            • 14 votes
            #8.18 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:35 PM EST
            petridishofideas

            billk......didn't you KNOW that grover norquist....YOU know the moron who refuses to allow the 1% to be taxed....is PERFECTLY OK with YOU and I and the rest of the 99% being taxed. Last I looked.....Obama and the dems aren't trying to create more taxes on the general public but allow the tax cuts to the 1% be allowed to expire like they were SUPPOPSED to. So much for the libs being for taxing everyone. And just goes to show those on the reich couldn't tell the truth if it came up and bitch slapped them. Didn't that hurt!

            • 6 votes
            #8.19 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:19 PM EST
            Don Overton

            One of the vows a Catholic Priest takes is obedience.

            But not to the United States of America.

            • 6 votes
            #8.20 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:04 PM EST
            Don Overton

            A great portion of Catholic Priests in the U.S. are not U.S. born but are foreign born and are here on work visas. Their only loyalty is to the Church.

            • 6 votes
            #8.21 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:27 PM EST
            WaltUU

            So now the supreme dictator can dictate what religion must do to conform to the state. You can not practice your religion if the state deems it unacceptable.

            Utterly and completely false. The President's proposal fully and completely respects and protects the right of an individual to make their own choice regarding contraception.

            When you have to lie about what happened, as you did here, it should be an indicator to you that what you're trying to advocate for is not worth advocating for.

            It is not about what a number of people do or don't do, it's about faith and religion.

            Correct, but it is about everyone's faith and religion not just yours.

            Obama and the libs are obfuscating their assault on Christian religion.

            The President and most liberals are Christians, and are protecting their rights to practice Christianity as they see fit, instead of capitulating to what they consider your twisted and corrupted interpretation of Christianity.

            The choice of religion based organizations do not limit the availability of the services only who is responsible for paying for the services.

            That contention has already been repudiated with numerous examples where the Christian-dominated government has inflicted requirements on small denominations (like the Jehovah's Witnesses) and non-Christians (like Muslim) without concern or respect for how those mandates violate those religion's tenets. Face it: You want to have it both ways: You want the government to subjugate everyone to your religious beliefs but refuse to subjugate yourself to the religious beliefs of others. It's a thoroughly egocentric, self-serving policy, without even an iota of honorable legitimacy.

            • 5 votes
            #8.22 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:20 AM EST
            WaltUU

            Religion should not have a bearing on health insurance.

            Correct: Health insurance offered should be based on secular medical considerations only, not the religious beliefs of the employer.

            Religion based organizations do have a choice on what they provide and finance.

            As much as any other employer has, and that is governed by the will of the people, not by the employer's preferences.

            It is unconstitutional to mandate religion based organizations finance services that violate the precepts of the religion.

            No it isn't. You made that up. The right to freely exercise one's religion is a right granted to people, not employers. Employers are not, for example, allowed to discriminate in hiring, firing and advancement, on the basis of religious belief and practice, for non-religious employees. So the issue here is that you simply don't understand the US Constitution well enough to understand the issue being discussed in this thread.

            Even under Obamacare organizations can just pay the fine.

            That much is true. So they can just pay the fine and avoid the whole issue. Problem solved.

            • 4 votes
            #8.23 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:25 AM EST
            WaltUU

            liberals love to tax others

            And right-wingers love to try to evade their responsibilities and obligations to others and to society. The basis of their advocacy is nothing by egocentric self-enrichment without any consideration of anyone other than themselves. So, what's your point?

            All the liberal not for profit organizations and societies should be taxed first. ... Any liberal based organization is playing politics and should be taxed.

            Here we see a perfect example of the underlying instinct for Dominionism: You say that those you disagree with should be punished, while implying that those you agree with, who are different in no other way than the fact that you agree with them, should be immune. That kind of self-serving insistence on receiving special treatment for themselves is a hallmark of the right-wing. Meanwhile, liberals are distinguished for their efforts to receive special treatment for others, i.e., for those less fortunate. This clearly shows the difference in morality between the right-wing (selfishness) and the liberals (altruism).

            The OWS protesters should have been tried and fined.

            For what? Trespassing? Yes, I agree. Now let's get back to the transgressions and offensive perspectives of the right-wing, instead of letting you try to derail the thread to distract attention away from what we were already discussing.

            • 4 votes
            #8.24 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:34 AM EST
            Severed Head in a Jar

            LOL... liberals love to tax others. All the liberal not for profit organizations and societies should be taxed first. The OWS protesters should have been tried and fined. Any liberal based organization is playing politics and should be taxed.

            And all conservatives should be taken out and shot.

            There, I can spout sensless, fact-free inflammatory rhetoric just as well as you, Bill.

            • 1 vote
            #8.25 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:51 AM EST
            Reply
            Bill K. NY

            Wrong!!! Not in the secular world of employment.

            What US Code or case law gives Obama and the dims the authority to mandate religion based organizations violate the precepts of the religion?

              Reply#9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:25 PM EST
              JACK DEATH

              What US Code or case law gives Obama and the dims the authority to mandate religion based organizations violate the precepts of the religion?

              See post #8.14

              • 14 votes
              #9.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:34 PM EST
              Bill K. NY

              Does not answer the question.

                #9.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:36 PM EST
                JACK DEATH

                Does not answer the question.

                Do you have comprehension problem or just being obtuse?

                • 13 votes
                #9.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 PM EST
                petridishofideas

                HOW about since the church wants to push POLICY they have their tax exempt status removed. They can no longer play it both ways!

                • 7 votes
                #9.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:21 PM EST
                SuperSaiyan

                What US Code or case law gives Obama and the dims the authority to mandate religion based organizations violate the precepts of the religion?

                I guess Bill K. NY doesn't want to admit that states already do that, not to mention many catholic hospitials and institutions...

                Twenty-eight states already require organizations that offer prescription insurance to cover contraception...

                ...Similarly, an informal survey conducted by Our Sunday Visitor found that many Catholic colleges have purchased insurance plans that provide contraception benefits:

                University of Scranton, for example, appears to specifically cover contraception. The University of San Francisco offers employees two health plans, both of which cover abortion, contraception and sterilization…Also problematic is the Jesuit University of Scranton. One of its health insurance plans, the First Priority HMO, lists a benefit of “contraceptives when used for the purpose of birth control.”

                DePaul University in Chicago covers birth control in both its fully insured HMO plan and its self-insured PPO plan and excludes “elective abortion,” said spokesman John Holden, adding that the 1,800 employee-university responded to a complaint from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission several years ago and added artificial contraception as a benefit to its Blue Cross PPO.

                Christian Brothers University in Memphis, Tenn., offers employee health insurance via the Tennessee Independent Colleges and Universities Association, a consortium of Christian Bible and other private college and universities. Its plan excludes abortion, but probably covers artificial contraception as a prescription drug, said C. Gregg Conroy, the executive director of the TICUA Benefit Consortium.

                Boston College, the six former Caritas Christi Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts, and other Catholic organizations that are located in one of the 28 states that already require employers to provide contraception benefits could have self-insured or stopped offering prescription drug coverage to avoid the mandate — but didn’t do so. Instead, they — like many Catholic hospitals and health care insurers around the country — chose to meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of Catholic women and offer these much needed services.

                http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/07/420114/many-catholic-universities-hospitals-already-offer-contraception-as-part-of-their-health-insurance-plans/

                • 14 votes
                #9.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:02 PM EST
                WaltUU

                Do you have comprehension problem or just being obtuse?

                Let me expand on what Jack said, here, to Bill. There is a difference between saying that you disagree with something and claiming it wasn't said. Right-wingers (at least on Newsvine) are increasingly using the tactic of denying that answers are provided to their questions, posed in these threads, to avoid having to defend their perspectives on qualitative grounds. It's a self-serving and indefensibly lazy way of "discussing" an issue, and ultimately is grievously disrespectful to the casual reader, who would reasonably expect the right-winger to conscientiously post a substantive rebuttal to what the liberal has posted, instead of just inanely denying it was even said.

                • 6 votes
                #9.6 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:39 AM EST
                bilweeler

                Walt:

                Right-wingers (at least on Newsvine) are increasingly using the tactic of denying that answers are provided to their questions, posed in these threads, to avoid having to defend their perspectives on qualitative grounds.

                Bingo! And thanks for calling out Bill K and the rest of the pompous self righteous crowd that doesn't really want to have a discussion. They just want a platform to rant from.

                +100.

                • 6 votes
                #9.7 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:17 AM EST
                jwc2blue

                Right-wingers (at least on Newsvine) are increasingly using the tactic of denying that answers are provided to their questions, posed in these threads, to avoid having to defend their perspectives on qualitative grounds. It's a self-serving and indefensibly lazy way of "discussing" an issue, and ultimately is grievously disrespectful to the casual reader,

                Absolutely Walt. It's like watching the Borg evolve a response to an attack!

                Whenever I start seeing a particular phrase (like Liberals love to tax others) being picked up by the Vine's Teahadist contingent, it can always be traced back to either Fox, Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage or one of their minor deities.

                It show a remarkable lack of ability to cogitate and express an independent or even critical thought.

                I don't know that I'd call it self-serving however. It's more cowardly.

                • 4 votes
                #9.8 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:28 AM EST
                Severed Head in a Jar

                OK, Bill, I propose that all male employees of Jewish-owned businesses must be circumcised as a condition of employment. After all, it's a basic tenet of their religion, and should therefore apply to everyone who works there, right?

                How does that grab ya? The logic is the same as yours.

                • 3 votes
                #9.9 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:55 AM EST
                Colodomom

                lol!!!

                I never would've thought I'd ask anybody named "Severed Head in a Jar" to be my friend on Newsvine...

                but I just did!

                Thank you Severed. Your sarcasm was much appreciated.

                • 2 votes
                #9.10 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:15 PM EST
                Reply
                dbmcc

                The First Amendment provides that Government shall make no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

                The Bishops and the right wing fundamentalist went completely over the cliff on this one. They didn't just overreach, they shot themselves in the head.

                The ACA, by providing for free contraceptives for women as part of a comprehensive preventive care program for all women, finally came into the 21 Centuary. Making contraceptives available to women is a medical issue not a religious issue. The Bishops and the far right are trying to get the Government to enforce their dogma and beliefs on all of us, believers and non-believers alike. This is a violation of the First Amendment prohibition against Government establishing Religion.

                98% of women of child bearing age have used contraceptives, and depend on that use for various medical reasons as well as for control of the size of their family.

                The ACA does not interfer with the practice of Religion. No one is being told what to do or what to believe or how to practice their faith. Instead, you have the bishops and far right, pushing Government to enforce their religious dogma which is a violation of the First Amendment.

                No one who advocates the prohibition of contraceptives is fit for office. And, IMO, women will not support such a person.

                • 14 votes
                Reply#10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 PM EST
                concerned67

                The GOP and the Catholic Church stated this mess thinking it would hurt Obama and instead it has come back and bite them in the a----ss. This is all about their insurance companies providing contraceptives. The Church won't pay for it and no one has to use it. And it has nothing to do with freedom of religion. The GOP and Church doesn't want anyone using contraceptives. It is against their religion they claim, but wants to impose this on women and other religions everywhere.

                USA today interview Bishops and they admitted that is wasn't about religion. They want the contraceptives completely gone. No matter what religion they don't want anybody to use them.

                • 13 votes
                Reply#11 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:32 PM EST
                Dowser

                Well, I think they over-reached themselves.

                Stay out of my bedroom. That's private.

                • 12 votes
                Reply#12 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:51 PM EST
                Bootstraps

                Obama mandates free @!$%# to buy votes, Religious leaders cowers the fool, and now the conversation turns to the GOP and an invented attack on 1/2 the population. That's crazy enough to work.

                  Reply#13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:11 PM EST
                  Don Overton

                  Obama mandates free @!$%# to buy votes,

                  Don't ya just love the antics of the right especially in their attempts to make things up.

                  • 18 votes
                  Reply#14 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:15 PM EST
                  Pacific Northwest Blogger

                  Remember those discussions about death panels, how people were upset that any government agency might be able to decide what happens regarding a person's health? Well this is what happens when organized religion puts themselves between the patient and the doctor. It's none of their business - period. There's no single reason to take birth control, those decisions are reached through honest discussion between doctors and their patients. Some may not want a family at the moment, some may want the pill to make their monthly discomfort lesson, some may use a condom for recreational purposes. Whatever the reason it's none of my business, nor any organized religion's. I don't sit in the doctor's office and review every meeting between doctor and patient, why should religion be allowed that access, that control over how any of us live our lives when religion tells us that free will is something God doesn't interfere with?

                  • 13 votes
                  Reply#15 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:19 PM EST
                  Bill K. NY

                  The controversy is a mandate that religion based organizations provide and finance services that violate the beliefs, teaching, and precepts of the religion. It has nothing to do with what goes on between the doctor and the patient.

                  • 1 vote
                  #15.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:37 PM EST
                  Pacific Northwest Blogger

                  The controversy is a mandate that religion based organizations provide and finance services that violate the beliefs, teaching, and precepts of the religion.

                  ... and how do those beliefs outweigh the religious beliefs and decisions made by individuals, including patients who want access to birth control and their doctors who prescribe them? People utilizing a religious focused hospital and still ask for birth control understand what they are asking for. They've made their choice, the religious institution should not discriminate, these people made their choice and that should be respected.

                  • 13 votes
                  #15.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:50 PM EST
                  Steve Watts

                  The controversy is a mandate that religion based organizations provide and finance services that violate the beliefs, teaching, and precepts of the religion.

                  Then the religious owners are perfectly free to shut down their secular businesses if they don't want to comply with US law. As long as you own a business in the United States, you have to abide by the same laws as every other business. It's really not that complicated.

                  • 14 votes
                  #15.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:20 PM EST
                  WaltUU

                  The controversy is a mandate that religion based organizations provide and finance services that violate the beliefs, teaching, and precepts of the religion.

                  False. The mandate is a mandate on all employers. The mandate even exempts churches. When you have to deceive the casual reader to make your point, as you've done here, it should tell you something about how invalid what you're posting is.

                  • 3 votes
                  #15.4 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:41 AM EST
                  Severed Head in a Jar

                  Don't bother,WaitUU. Bill's sitting there with his hands over his ears saying, "La, la, la, I can't hear you."

                  • 4 votes
                  #15.5 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:59 AM EST
                  Reply
                  sms29s66

                  The first mistake was to address the issue thru employers. If the insurance companies were required to provide free contraceptives in all drug policies, then the shoe would have been on the other foot. The Church would then have a choice--either provide coverage for drugs or don't. Not having done that to begin with, the President should have pointed out that he was not addressing religious institutions, he was addressing employers--if the Church wishes to be an employer, it must follow ALL the rules.

                  Of course, the real problem here is having employers provide health insurance to begin with. This issue is the poster child for a single payer system.

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#16 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:51 PM EST
                  tweetheart44

                  I didn't know that Catholic bishops control the world. News to me. It's time to stop pandering to the Catholic church and to do what's right for women in this country. Most women don't want to live by the archaic rules set by a bunch of old Catholic men or a nut like Ricky Santorum.

                  The thing that really irks me is that the rules don't apply to Viagra, etc. SO hypocritical and male chauvinistic. But it's certainly no surprise. It's just typical.

                  I think that this whole thing is going to benefit Democrats, not Republicans.

                  • 11 votes
                  Reply#17 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:13 PM EST
                  sms29s66

                  I don't see any connection between covering Viagra and not covering the pill.

                    #17.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:08 PM EST
                    tweetheart44

                    Viagra allows a man to become well, you know, and that allows a woman to become pregnant. We can't have that now, can we? And Rick "the almighty" Santorum says that no one should have sex for fun. Nope, no Viagra for men.

                    • 4 votes
                    #17.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:09 PM EST
                    sms29s66

                    I see another reason for the Church to ban Viagra. The Church's position is that it is God's will that we procreate BUT that it must be done "naturally". So, if the Church forbids in vitro fertilization as unnatural, then it should similarly forbid Viagra. If a man's impotence is God's will, then he just has to live with it. That argument seems more logical than Viagra vs. birth control pills if you are trying to say the Church is illogical.

                    • 3 votes
                    #17.3 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:56 AM EST
                    Severed Head in a Jar

                    And Rick "the almighty" Santorum says that no one should have sex for fun. Nope, no Viagra for men.

                    Santorum and the Catholic Bishops are actually in favor of providing Viagra, because it increases the chance of more pregnancies. I guess the idea is to breed more potential Catholics, because they're losing the ones they have.

                    • 2 votes
                    #17.4 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:03 AM EST
                    sms29s66

                    Severed, if increasing the chance of pregnancies is their goal, then what is their objection to in vitro? At what point does "unnatural" kick in?

                      #17.5 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:01 PM EST
                      tweetheart44

                      This entire idea of controlling people and their sexual and reproductive lives is just ridiculous. Hopefully, some people will see that a vote for Santorum is a vote for the United States to be controlled by the Catholic Church and their laws. I just cannot believe that this is how most people want our country to be run. This is a blatant cross over of church and state. I thought that Republicans were so proud that we lived in a democracy with freedoms. You can kiss that goodbye if any of these Republicans/conservatives/tea baggers/ libertarians wins the next election. Dominionism is what it is called, and it MUST be stopped!

                      • 5 votes
                      #17.6 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 PM EST
                      sms29s66

                      tweet, are you old enough to remember the 1960 election when jFK had to assure the nation that he would not govern the country as a stooge for the Pope? We've come a long way, haven't we?

                      • 3 votes
                      #17.7 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:51 PM EST
                      tweetheart44

                      No, that was before I knew anything about politics. However, I do remember that my very Republican parents basically told me that Democrats and Kennedy were akin to the devil. They are still die-hard Republicans and believe everything that FAUX tells them. It's sad.

                      This entire issue makes me think of a Seinfield episode.....the soup nazi, but instead it's Santorum, the SEX nazi....."NO SEX FOR YOU unless it is to have a child!"

                      • 2 votes
                      #17.8 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:59 PM EST
                      Severed Head in a Jar

                      SMS

                      if increasing the chance of pregnancies is their goal, then what is their objection to in vitro? At what point does "unnatural" kick in?

                      They don't object to in vitrio; they just don't waqnt any embryos to die in the process. If they could mandate that a couple attempting in vitrio fertilization had to implant all of the fertilized ova somewhere they're fine with it. So either the mother has to implant all of them in herself (think Octomom) or find volunteer wombs for the rest.

                      As far as "unnatural"kicking in, I'd say every time Rick opens his mouth.

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.9 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:18 PM EST
                      sms29s66

                      Severed, I believe you are mistaken.

                      http://www.americancatholic.org/messenger/apr1997/feature1.asp

                      I checked a few other sites and as of 2010 there doesn't seem to be any change in the Church's position.

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.10 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:52 PM EST
                      Reply
                      Pat P11111

                      The GOP have carefully cultivated the religious right for years. Since they represent the rich they needed a vote base.

                      The problem arose when President Obama was elected. The religious right tends to be much more racist than the norm. The election of a black man as President inflamed the GOP base and resulted in the 2010 election of many true believers.

                      These religious radicals have been at war with womens' sexuality since the birth of our nation. This is not over reach, this is their goal. They need to control women.

                      It has never been about abortion. If it was where is the charity to care for these unwanted unborn children? It is about punishing wanton behavior. Abortion allows a women to escape retribution for her crime.

                      This is nothing but Jihad against a womens' sexuality.

                      • 8 votes
                      Reply#18 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:39 PM EST
                      Colodomom

                      Pat--

                      BINGO!!!

                      Oh so well said...

                      FR sent.

                      • 5 votes
                      #18.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:50 PM EST
                      Reply
                      Lisafrequency

                      I cannot be3lieve any one takes this birth control stuff seriously vote Obama. Ha ha...

                        Reply#19 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:11 PM EST
                        Colodomom

                        Really LISA? As a woman you can't see why WOMEN would take any of this stuff seriously?

                        What a sham...er SHAME! Yeah, that's what I meant SHAME.

                        • 7 votes
                        #19.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:25 PM EST
                        Lisafrequency

                        really LISA? As a woman you can't see why WOMEN would take any of this stuff seriously?

                        As a woman i felt it was pretty important to learn about my body and to be able to know when I was ovulating....

                        Vote Obama that will solve all your problems.

                        • 1 vote
                        #19.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:44 PM EST
                        bilweeler

                        Lisa:

                        Vote Obama that will solve all your problems.

                        Ironically, we agree.

                        Of course, I understand your comment was intended to be sarcasm, but I choose to accept it for the truth of the matter stated. Sarcasm filters are useful.

                        • 8 votes
                        #19.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:51 PM EST
                        Colodomom

                        Ok Lisa, let's make a deal.

                        You don't tell me how to vote and I won't tell you where to put it.

                        K?

                        disclaimer: no ultra rightwing conservatives were harmed in the creation of this sarcastic comment.

                        • 8 votes
                        #19.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:52 PM EST
                        Lisafrequency

                        Of course, I understand your comment was intended to be sarcasm, but I choose to accept it for the truth of the matter stated. Sarcasm filters are useful.

                        No it was not I know how to use the sarcasm tag.

                        • 1 vote
                        #19.5 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:02 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Spike Evans

                        You know what's frustrating about this debate? If the "good" Catholic women who work in these organizations do not want to use contraception, then, lo and behold, they do not have to use it. No one is forcing the women to choose to use contraception. It seems as if the Catholic organizations operating in the United States basically want to operate under a little fiefdom exempt from the laws of the United States where they can enslave their members by convincing them that the rights of Americans do not apply to them because of the religion they have chosen to worship.

                        If the faith of these woman who work in these Catholic organizations is so strong, why would the Bishops worry that members of their congregation would opt to cast their soul into the pit of hell by using contraception?

                        What century are we living in again?

                        • 9 votes
                        Reply#20 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:55 PM EST
                        Colodomom

                        What century are we living in again?

                        Well according to Einstein, time is relative.

                        So, let's see....8 plus 16....

                        carry the 2....

                        and God said: E=MC squared.....

                        and then there was light....

                        er....

                        Well...

                        It depends on the political beliefs of the person you're asking

                        If they are members of the GOP...this would be the 19th Century.

                        ...relatively speaking.

                        • 4 votes
                        #20.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:19 PM EST
                        tweetheart44

                        Spike Evans, Exactly! No one is forcing any one to use contraception if they don't want to use it. Is the Catholic Church so weak that they cannot control their entire flock? Oh no! Imagine that!

                        • 4 votes
                        #20.2 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:19 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Skidude

                        You bet they over-reached.They always speak against big government, but they think it's ok for the government push religious doctine on the citizens.They want to dictate what insurance a person buys and what a policy covers. Religious extremism at it's finest. They have nothing better to do. Another GOP talking point to take peoples attention off the real issues. You can only BS so much.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#21 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:23 PM EST
                        yvonne stevenson

                        Really, is there any doubt! If so, Its not much.Our private lives are just that PRIVATE!

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#22 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:37 PM EST
                        1devon

                        I already ran screaming from the GOP but if I hadn't, this would do it. Putting aside that using contraceptives is the responsible thing to do, many women are put on them for medical reasons other than family planning. I can't imagine many women AND their husbands/partners are looking at the regressives with anything other than shock and disgust.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#23 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:53 PM EST
                        johnny angel

                        As they bugger America from behind they "over-reach" the courtesy reach-around one would expect. I would run screaming too.

                        • 2 votes
                        #23.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:08 PM EST
                        Reply
                        keepfreepress

                        The GOP seems to constantly change subjects only to fall into a disaster. Either they deliberately want to lose the election or they are proving their continued lack of competence in acting as elected officials. How can any voter trust them? They have never, never, never tried to eliminate birth control until now. It is purely a GOP political ploy in an attempt to see if they can change public dialogue away from the terrible line up of GOP candidates.

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#24 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:03 PM EST
                        DivagatingThoughts

                        The best way to win against an incumbent president is to find an area of disappointment with the president and exploit it. And they just dont really have too many areas to exploit with Obama, especially with the economy improving. Obama does have many flaws and many areas of disappointment but then all tend to be left wing in nature. Things like the failure to investigate the past admin, the failure to arrest anyone involved in the financial meltdown, the failure to undo the bush intelligence apparatus and executive power overreach. Hasnt let medical marijuana alone. Hasnt ended all wars. still too much a corporatist. ETC I dont necessarily agree with all those, but those are the common complaints. That he hasnt been left enough.

                        He has really left nothing on the right for them to grasp on.

                        He lowered taxes, he reduced gun restrictions, killed osama, warred a bit in Libya, kept the bush intelligence apparatus, was forced to but kept open gitmo. We havent been attacked. The markets are doing well the gdp growth is ok, UE decline seems real, what have they got? gay marriage and this one single ruling on contraception. Obama is mostly a center right president, they have no where to go but off the deep end. To go full on taliban.

                        • 3 votes
                        #24.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:35 PM EST
                        Lisafrequency

                        The best way to win against an incumbent president is to find an area of disappointment with the president and exploit it

                        i know it seems like repubs are stupid. If they wanted to win the election they would be using Ron Paul's talking points on the economy and foreign policy to their full advantage. They would get a young good looking guy to say exactly what Ron Paul is saying and they would win hands down. Intead they are talking about a brokered convention and plan to bring in Jeb Bush. The people will not vote in another Buh an they know that. They want to let Obama be the one to crash the economy.

                        Obama is not improving the economy if you believe he is you must not be in the real world with rising gas and food prices.

                        If you really believe it is the goal of any political party in America to save the economy you are sadly mistaken the goal is to completely demoralize and impoverish all but the wealthy and that goal is being met with ease.

                        The dems and repubs are working together right now to conquer and divide the people and they are doing an excellent job of it.

                        • 1 vote
                        #24.2 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:08 AM EST
                        Colodomom

                        The dems and repubs are working together right now to conquer and divide the people and they are doing an excellent job of it.

                        Yes Lisa, except there has ONLY been ONE concerted effort to stripmine women's reproductive rights...and it's by the GOP/TP...in States all over the country. There were 64 anti-women laws proposed in the first 6 months of 2011. Of them there were 30 in the month of April 2011 alone. MANY of them passed. Here's a smattering in alphabetical order.

                        Arizona:

                        Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, also a Republican, signed a new law banning state tax credits for donations to Planned Parenthood or other abortion providers.

                        Georgia:

                        A Georgia state representative known for his fringe politics has introduced a radical pro-life bill that not only calls for the nullification of Roe v. Wade, but also makes having a miscarriage a capital offense unless the mother can irrefutably prove that there was “no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such an event.” Laced with misogyny, insensitivity, and pseudo-science, Representative Bobby Franklin’s House Bill 1 (HB1) could be considered ridiculous, if it was not just the latest episode in a frightening turn of right-wing pro-life extremism that targets pregnant women.

                        HB1 rationalizes that, because “Georgia has the duty to protect all innocent life from the moment of conception until natural death,” the failure of an inseminated egg to come to term should fall under suspicion as an act of “prenatal murder.” So, if Franklin has his way, hospitals would be mandated to report every miscarriage (which, he points out, is known medically as “spontaneous abortion”) to the local police, who would then somehow ascertain the cause of the miscarriage. The burden of proof, in other words, would be placed on the woman who might be mourning the loss of her pregnancy.

                        Indiana:

                        The Obama administration prohibited the State of Indiana on Wednesday from carrying out a new state law that cuts off money for Planned Parenthood clinics providing health care to low-income women on Medicaid.

                        Indiana has hit a new low in the right's attacks on women's reproductive rights. A provision of House Bill 1210 would actually require doctors to tell pregnant women that abortion could increase their risk for breast cancer -- no matter the science.

                        The abortion/breast cancer connection is controversial at best. Health organizations have refuted the theory. In fact, researchers have found that breast cancer risk increases temporarily when a pregnancy is carried to a full term.

                        Beyond that, the bill would ban abortion after 20 weeks, force women to view an ultrasound unless they submit a written refusal and targets Planned Parenthood by outlawing state funding for organizations that perform abortions or maintains facilities where women can get abortions.

                        Mandating the spread of misinformation is irresponsible and reprehensible. Indiana's women deserve accurate information and real reproductive choice. Tell Indiana lawmakers to oppose all bills that attack women's health rights.

                        Iowa:

                        Key Iowa Republicans are drafting legislation mirroring a new, more restrictive Nebraska abortion law in an attempt to derail plans of a Nebraska doctor to open a Council Bluffs clinic where late-term abortions would be performed.

                        A new law took effect Oct. 15 in Nebraska that bans abortions after 20 weeks of gestation, or roughly five months, except in cases in which the mother’s life is in jeopardy.

                        The Midwest is seeing a wave of new measures intended to give additional protections to fetuses—including a growing number of bills that could make it legal to kill an abortion doctor in the name of protecting an "unborn child."

                        A South Dakota bill that could have allowed the "justifiable homicide" defense to be used for individuals who murder abortion providers was shelved last week after public outcry. And as my colleagues Daniel Schulman and Nick Baumann reported Thursday morning, a Nebraska lawmaker introduced a very similar bill there. Now legislators in Iowa are have also introduced a pair of bills that would recognize a fetus as a separate person and would permit "deadly force" in the protection of that fetus, as the Iowa Independent's Lynda Waddington reported Thursday

                        Kansas:

                        Just this week, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican, signed a pair of new Kansas laws that ban abortions (no exceptions) after 21 weeks of pregnancy and that require minors seeking to terminate pregnancies to get consent from both their parents.

                        Louisiana:

                        BATON ROUGE, La. -- A group of abortion clinics filed a federal lawsuit Friday challenging two new Louisiana abortion laws that require ultrasound exams for all women getting abortions and that bar medical malpractice coverage for doctors who perform elective abortions.

                        The new ultrasound law not only requires the medical procedure, but also requires that women know they have the option to hear a description of what is seen in the ultrasound, to receive a photograph of the ultrasound image and to view the ultrasound.
                        There is no exception for victims of rape or incest.

                        Nebraska:

                        Nebraska, debates are still alive between pro and anti abortion groups when the last legislative session was marked by the restrictions of abortion. The executive director of Nebraska Right to Life, Julie Schmit-Albin, said has already foreseen the attention that the coming 2011 session will get.egislative session was marked by the restrictions of abortion. The executive director of Nebraska Right to Life, Julie Schmit-Albin, said has already foreseen the attention that the coming 2011 session will get.

                        A law that has been in effect in October forbids abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy because there have been disputed claims that a fetus can already feel the pain after that point. It is obviously outside the 1973 ruling in Roe v. Wade that allows abortion between 22 to 24 weeks if the fetus has no viable chance of survival outside the womb.

                        U.S. Sen. Mike Johanns of Nebraska Republican group is known for pushing for a federal law, same with the officials of National Right to Life introducing similar laws in other states. Schmit-Albin believes that there is more to be done in Nebraska.

                        New Jersey:

                        Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) introduced a bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” (HR 3) that would limit the rape exemption for abortion to “forcible rape” which would have defined many rapes, for example, statutory rape of a minor, as non-forcible and therefore not covered by federal assistance

                        Pennsylvania:

                        Representative Joe Pitts (R-PA) introduced a bill (HR 358) would allow states to deny insurance coverage for birth control meaning hospitals could deny abortion procedures and transport to a facility that would provide a woman with an abortion even if failure to provide an abortion would mean the death of the woman

                        South Dakota:

                        Planned Parenthood filed a lawsuit in federal court on Friday seeking to block a South Dakota law that would require women seeking abortions to face the nation’s longest waiting period, three days, and undergo counseling at pregnancy help centers that discourage abortion. The lawsuit asks a federal judge to suspend the law from taking effect on July 1 until a final ruling is issued on whether it violates a woman’s constitutional right to abortion.

                        Texas:

                        Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican, made the bill, which the Legislature passed on Thursday, a priority and is expected to sign it. The bill requires a doctor to conduct a sonogram at least 24 hours before an abortion and to give the woman the opportunity to see the results and hear the heartbeat of the fetus. Though the woman can choose not to view the images and hear the heartbeat, the doctor must describe what the sonogram shows, including the existence of legs, arms and internal organs. There are no exceptions for rape or incest.

                        Virginia:

                        Lawmakers in Virginia approved an amendment Wednesday that would ban private insurance plans from covering abortions if they participate in a state health care exchange under President Obama’s new health care law.

                        The amendment, proposed by Gov. Bob McDonnell and passed by both the State House and Senate on Wednesday, states that no insurance plan sold as part of the state health care exchange could cover abortion except in cases of rape, incest and danger to the mother’s life.

                        UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

                        House Republicans continued Wednesday with their efforts to dismantle the health care law. On a 251-to-175 vote, the House approved a bill prohibiting federal money to be used for insurance plans that cover abortions. The bill goes beyond current federal law, which prohibits the use of federal funds for abortions. It would also wipe out tax breaks for private employers who provide coverage if their plans offer abortion services and would eliminate the ability to pay for an abortion with pretax dollars from a flexible spending plan. Voting 235 to 191, the House blocked money for construction of school-based health centers that had been earmarked in the health care act.

                        As a longtime voting member of the Democratic Party...I KNOW the Dems aren't perfect. There's even a few things they do that I could b!tchslap them for...

                        But PLEASE DO explain to me how I'm supposed to support ANY political party that hates women on THIS LEVEL!!!

                        Why would ANY women support these people? Could you explain that? Could you?

                        • 3 votes
                        #24.3 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:28 PM EST
                        Reply
                        AlphaDogReporter

                        1700's mindset is overreaching, yes.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#25 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:50 AM EST
                        Jump to discussion page: 1 2
                        Leave a Comment:
                        You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                        You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                        (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                        Newsvine Privacy Statement
                        As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                        FUN STUFF:
                        • Leaderboard |
                        • E-Mail Alerts |
                        • Top of the Vine |
                        • Newsvine Live |
                        • Newsvine Archives |
                        • The Greenhouse |
                        COMPANY STUFF:
                        • Code of Honor |
                        • Company Info |
                        • Contact Us |
                        • Jobs |
                        • User Agreement |
                        • Privacy Policy |
                        • About our ads
                        LEGAL STUFF:
                        • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                        • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                        • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com